Posts by Doug Mason

10

Apocalyptic 2 Esdras 2

by Doug Mason in

await your shepherd; he will give you everlasting rest, because he who will come at the end of the age is close at hand.

be ready for the rewards of the kingdom.

... receive what the lord has entrusted to you and be joyful, giving thanks to him who has called you to heavenly kingdoms..

Doug Mason

EdenOne,

That is exactly the point I was hoping someone would observe.

It indicates to me that the writers of Revelation did not have any of the claimed euphoric experiences, but they rewrote existing earlier Jewish material. (2 Esdras is included in some canons of the Hebrew Scriptures - OT.)

Revelation makes little, if any, reference to contemporary Christian writings. That being the case, this contradicts the WTS's statement that certain NT passages in the Gospels, Acts and Epistles refer the 144,000.

(The number 144 is significant in Hebrew gematria.)

Doug

16

Those who have not defiled themselves with women

by Doug Mason in

i am seeking a copy of this article:.

those who have not defiled themselves with women: revelation 14:4 and the book of enoch, daniel carl olson, catholic biblical quarterly, 59.3, 1997, pages 492-510, issn: 0008-7912.

if someone is able to locate a copy, you will find my email address at:.

Doug Mason

Radar!

Thank you so very much for your amazing help.

Deeply appreciated.

Doug

16

Those who have not defiled themselves with women

by Doug Mason in

i am seeking a copy of this article:.

those who have not defiled themselves with women: revelation 14:4 and the book of enoch, daniel carl olson, catholic biblical quarterly, 59.3, 1997, pages 492-510, issn: 0008-7912.

if someone is able to locate a copy, you will find my email address at:.

Doug Mason

Thanks Village I,

I have followed up on your lead. As you say, we do have a Catholic University here in Melbourne, so I will take a trip to see them as well.

Great help! Thanks,

Doug

10

Apocalyptic 2 Esdras 2

by Doug Mason in

await your shepherd; he will give you everlasting rest, because he who will come at the end of the age is close at hand.

be ready for the rewards of the kingdom.

... receive what the lord has entrusted to you and be joyful, giving thanks to him who has called you to heavenly kingdoms..

Doug Mason

Await your shepherd; he will give you everlasting rest, because he who will come at the end of the age is close at hand. Be ready for the rewards of the kingdom. … Receive what the Lord has entrusted to you and be joyful, giving thanks to him who has called you to heavenly kingdoms.

Rise and stand, and see at the feast of the Lord the number of those who have been sealed. Those who have departed from the shadow of this age have received glorious garments from the Lord. Take again your full number, O Zion, and conclude the list of your people who are clothed in white, who have fulfilled the law of the Lord. …

I, Ezra, saw on Mount Zion a great multitude, which I could not number, and they all were praising the Lord with songs. In their midst was a young man of great stature, taller than any of the others, and on the head of each of them he placed a crown, but he was more exalted than they.

And I was held spellbound. Then I asked an angel, “Who are these, my lord?”

He answered and said to me, “These are they who have put off mortal clothing and have put on the immortal, and they have confessed the name of God; now they are being crowned, and receive palms.”

Then I said to the angel, “Who is that young man who places crowns on them and puts palms in their hands?” He answered and said to me, “He is the Son of God, whom they confessed in the world.”

So I began to praise those who had stood valiantly for the name of the Lord. Then the angel said to me, “Go, tell my people how great and many are the wonders of the Lord God which you have seen.” (2 Esdras 2:34-48, RSV)

16

Those who have not defiled themselves with women

by Doug Mason in

i am seeking a copy of this article:.

those who have not defiled themselves with women: revelation 14:4 and the book of enoch, daniel carl olson, catholic biblical quarterly, 59.3, 1997, pages 492-510, issn: 0008-7912.

if someone is able to locate a copy, you will find my email address at:.

Doug Mason

There is no doubt that the writer(s) of Revelation were mysoginists (as was the anonymous writer of 1 Peter).

For the book of Revelation, good men are virgins and therefore are pure and undefiled, whereas the women are portrayed as harlots. In the Mosaic Law, people who engaged in sexual activity were deemed unclean for a time.

The people who wrote this stuff came from a different culture, from a different time, with different standards and understandings. This is not an excuse, but an observation.

Doug

16

Those who have not defiled themselves with women

by Doug Mason in

i am seeking a copy of this article:.

those who have not defiled themselves with women: revelation 14:4 and the book of enoch, daniel carl olson, catholic biblical quarterly, 59.3, 1997, pages 492-510, issn: 0008-7912.

if someone is able to locate a copy, you will find my email address at:.

Doug Mason

I am seeking a copy of this article:

“Those Who Have Not Defiled Themselves with Women”: Revelation 14:4 and the Book of Enoch, Daniel Carl Olson, Catholic Biblical Quarterly, 59.3, 1997, pages 492-510, ISSN: 0008-7912

If someone is able to locate a copy, you will find my email address at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/contact_me.html

Thanks,

Doug

6

Virgins and the Bride?

by Doug Mason in

i know that a parable must never be made to walk on all four legs, that many of its elements are there to act as "fillers".. nevertheless, i wonder if i have missed something with the watchtower's "explanation" of the parable of the ten virgins.

they state that the parable relates to their anointed class.

but the wts also says that the 144,000 are the "bride".. so are the "anointed" part of the wedding party that is waiting outside as well as being the "bride" waiting inside?.

Doug Mason

Hi Phizzy,

In my estimation, terms such as "spiritual virgins", "spirit-anointed" and the like are offspring whose parents never knew one another. I am sure we could think of more of these.

Doug

6

Virgins and the Bride?

by Doug Mason in

i know that a parable must never be made to walk on all four legs, that many of its elements are there to act as "fillers".. nevertheless, i wonder if i have missed something with the watchtower's "explanation" of the parable of the ten virgins.

they state that the parable relates to their anointed class.

but the wts also says that the 144,000 are the "bride".. so are the "anointed" part of the wedding party that is waiting outside as well as being the "bride" waiting inside?.

Doug Mason

Now I am further confused by the WTS.

In the March 15, 2015 Watchtower magazine, I read of the Parable of the Ten Virgins:

"Clearly, Jesus intended the parable recorded at Matthew 25:1-13 as counsel and a warning to his anointed followers. ... [Jesus] gave this parable to admonish all his anointed followers in the last days to 'keep on the watch'.” (page 13).

But in the February 15, 2014 magazine, I read:

"Since 1935, millions of people have allowed the remnant to ‘bring them to righteousness.’ These loyal companions of the anointed Christians have purified their lives, becoming spiritual virgins. These “virgin companions” of the bride have dedicated themselves to Jehovah and have proved themselves to be faithful subjects of the Bridegroom-King. The remnant of the bride class have been particularly grateful to these “virgin companions” for their zealous help in preaching." (pages 11-12)

Their "bride" is their 144,000, their "anointed followers". In the 2015 article, the warning about the virgins is to the "anointed" (even though the anointed are the "bride"). But in the 2014 article, the "millions of JWs" are the spiritual virgin companions of the bride.

It's a good thing I don't take any of this seriously.

Doug

6

Virgins and the Bride?

by Doug Mason in

i know that a parable must never be made to walk on all four legs, that many of its elements are there to act as "fillers".. nevertheless, i wonder if i have missed something with the watchtower's "explanation" of the parable of the ten virgins.

they state that the parable relates to their anointed class.

but the wts also says that the 144,000 are the "bride".. so are the "anointed" part of the wedding party that is waiting outside as well as being the "bride" waiting inside?.

Doug Mason

I know that a parable must never be made to walk on all four legs, that many of its elements are there to act as "fillers".

Nevertheless, I wonder if I have missed something with the Watchtower's "explanation" of the parable of the Ten Virgins. They state that the parable relates to their Anointed Class. But the WTS also says that the 144,000 are the "Bride".

So are the "anointed" part of the wedding party that is waiting outside as well as being the "bride" waiting inside?

Doug

12

Your Expert Research is needed!

by Atlantis in

friends:.

doug mason needs no introductions here.

we all know him to be an excellent writer, such as: blondie, terry, jwfacts, barbara anderson and countless others on this board.. doug is asking for assistance on a new project he is working on to explain in terms easy to understand, the changes the watchtower now expects jehovah's witnesses and others to believe.. your expert knowledge on these subjects such as: 144,000, great crowd, order of special full time servants, and governing body would be greatly appreciated.

Doug Mason

Please allow me to show you how fundamental some of my questions relate to. And I must preface this by saying that I do not voraciously devour everything the WTS churns out, so I am not across nuances that might creep in.

So to some fundamental questions:

1. Does the WTS still refer to the mass of JWs as the "Other Sheep" and "Great Crowd"? (Or do they use "Great Multitude"?)

2. By what other Bible-based designations does it identify the earth-bound class? (I suspect that terms such as Publisher, Overseer, and Pioneer are not Bible based, but I could be wrong. It has been known to happen.)

3. I see the term "spirit-anointed". Where do they get this? Is it from the gospels or from Pentecost?

4. What are the names it currently uses to identify the 144,000?

5. Does it openly refer to the Order of Special JWs, apart from that brief entry in the Year Book statistical summary?

6. Do they still see members of the 144,000 as having been gathered in every age since the start of Christianity?

I am not interested in pursuing the WT's past, only what it is saying today.

Thanks,

Doug